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	<title>Comments on: How many Christians understand Jesus&#8217; teachings?</title>
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	<link>http://lrs.moonstar.com/blog/2007/12/12/how-many-christians-understand-jesus-teachings/</link>
	<description>Lon's diatribes and rants on politics, religion, and geek stuff.</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 07 Nov 2009 16:13:07 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Sillie Lizzie</title>
		<link>http://lrs.moonstar.com/blog/2007/12/12/how-many-christians-understand-jesus-teachings/comment-page-2/#comment-13707</link>
		<dc:creator>Sillie Lizzie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 May 2009 05:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lrs.moonstar.com/blog/2007/12/12/how-many-christians-understand-jesus-teachings/#comment-13707</guid>
		<description>I did, in fact, refer "liberally" to Jesus' teaching in my argument. You just don't want to accept them for what they are. I quoted the LAST words of Jesus from the book of revelation after His ascension to the throne. Frankly, anyone who alleges to know Jesus and in the same breath says "if we truly believe Jesus was indeed God OR SOME PART THEREO", surely doesn't know Him at all! 

Furthermore, there isn't one single scripture to establish your premise that "Jesus' actal teachings are at a higher priority" than Paul or anyone else's. In fact, your belief in that regard contradicts scripture. 

And no wonder, since the essential premise of your whole blog is nothing but a regurgitation of the 2nd century Marcionite heresy which has been refuted a hundred times. You commit the same heresy, and by the same tactics... picking and choosing the scriptures that you like or dislike to make your assertions, on no other grounds than just because you are an authority unto yourself. Who the heck do you think you are? 

So, why would I waste any more time casting pearls before swine? If you lack the integrity to examine scritpure in its ENTIRETY, in its historical, grammatic and chronological context, we can argue till the cows come home and you will be no more in the light than you are now.  And you will inherit the same condemnation as your Marcionite mentor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I did, in fact, refer &#8220;liberally&#8221; to Jesus&#8217; teaching in my argument. You just don&#8217;t want to accept them for what they are. I quoted the LAST words of Jesus from the book of revelation after His ascension to the throne. Frankly, anyone who alleges to know Jesus and in the same breath says &#8220;if we truly believe Jesus was indeed God OR SOME PART THEREO&#8221;, surely doesn&#8217;t know Him at all! </p>
<p>Furthermore, there isn&#8217;t one single scripture to establish your premise that &#8220;Jesus&#8217; actal teachings are at a higher priority&#8221; than Paul or anyone else&#8217;s. In fact, your belief in that regard contradicts scripture. </p>
<p>And no wonder, since the essential premise of your whole blog is nothing but a regurgitation of the 2nd century Marcionite heresy which has been refuted a hundred times. You commit the same heresy, and by the same tactics&#8230; picking and choosing the scriptures that you like or dislike to make your assertions, on no other grounds than just because you are an authority unto yourself. Who the heck do you think you are? </p>
<p>So, why would I waste any more time casting pearls before swine? If you lack the integrity to examine scritpure in its ENTIRETY, in its historical, grammatic and chronological context, we can argue till the cows come home and you will be no more in the light than you are now.  And you will inherit the same condemnation as your Marcionite mentor.</p>
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		<title>By: Lon</title>
		<link>http://lrs.moonstar.com/blog/2007/12/12/how-many-christians-understand-jesus-teachings/comment-page-2/#comment-13706</link>
		<dc:creator>Lon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 May 2009 02:11:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lrs.moonstar.com/blog/2007/12/12/how-many-christians-understand-jesus-teachings/#comment-13706</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;@Sillie Lizzie&lt;/b&gt;: First, thank you for your comment. Although we have significant disagreement here, it is always refreshing in today's world to find someone who does indeed care enough to take the time.

I see on &lt;a href="http://sillielizziesrock.blogspot.com/2009/05/how-religious-left-serves-satan-by.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;your blog post&lt;/a&gt; that you have already cast judgment upon me with your claims that I sit at the table with Judas and "worship the image of the beast". Given that, I have grave doubts whether it is even possible for me to say anything further to convince you of your error. I will say that my liberal friends always get a chuckle when they hear someone calling me a leftist; only the so-called "conservatives" of the current day who arguably don't understand the definition of the word seem to think I'm not conservative in most matters. I do find it interesting, however, that when one examines Jesus' teachings, it is obvious to anyone with at least a high school education that He was more liberal than any human wearing that label today.

That said, along with several of the ones commenting previously, I'd urge you to take a fresh look at the painting without trying to consider the depiction as an attempt to re-create the event where He was washing the feet of His disciples. Rather consider that the same action was depicted with a slightly different set of circumstances to slightly change the emphasis of the lesson presented.

In the original event with His disciples, Jesus was attempting to show them the foolishness of the argument they were having regarding which one(s) of them would have a more prestigious position in the afterlife. To do so, He used the obvious and universal fact that performing a service for someone does &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; say anything about the character of the person for whom the service is done, but it speaks volumes about the character of the person doing the service. And it speaks even louder when the person doing the service is of "greater" stature than the one receiving the service. Anyone is willing to serve a friend or someone they thought to be greater than themselves. It takes a truly excellent character to freely provide a service to someone who is of lesser stature than oneself, and by doing so, one is exalted.

That is the point I believe you are missing here in light of the last line in your blog post. You said that Jesus would kneel before no one, which says to me that you believe that doing so somehow means that the one doing the kneeling is inferior. I, on the other hand, believe that point being made is that a persona such as Jesus Himself, washing the feet of even those I believe (possibly incorrectly) are His enemies, glorifies Him beyond words. You say, rightfully so, that Jesus is the King of Kings. Is it not a good king who serves all of his people, even those that disagree with him? All humans qualify as Jesus' people, and His very appearance on our sin-ridden planet reveals His character.

In our day and age, politicians are as poorly regarded as the tax-collectors and the others with whom Jesus spent his time while on our planet. The painting uses this, not in an attempt to re-create the message shown in the original foot-washing episode, but in an attempt to illustrate &lt;i&gt;Jesus' entire ministry on Earth&lt;/i&gt;. Even if this is not true, when you say that Jesus didn't wash the feet of His enemies, I assume you're forgetting the presence of Judas?

Finally, I would ask that you notice that when I make most of my arguments in religious matters, I use Jesus' words and teachings as recorded in the Bible as my basis. If you believe that my interpretation of one or more of His teachings is in error, it would be helpful if you presented your counter argument  by likewise referencing His teachings. Like many, I find the Bible to be valuable, but unlike many, I firmly believe that Jesus' actual teachings are at a higher priority and importance than Paul's or anyone else's. If we truly believe that Jesus was indeed God or some part thereof, we must admit that His actual words carry a good bit more weight than any human regardless of how inspired that human was.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>@Sillie Lizzie</b>: First, thank you for your comment. Although we have significant disagreement here, it is always refreshing in today&#8217;s world to find someone who does indeed care enough to take the time.</p>
<p>I see on <a href="http://sillielizziesrock.blogspot.com/2009/05/how-religious-left-serves-satan-by.html" rel="nofollow">your blog post</a> that you have already cast judgment upon me with your claims that I sit at the table with Judas and &#8220;worship the image of the beast&#8221;. Given that, I have grave doubts whether it is even possible for me to say anything further to convince you of your error. I will say that my liberal friends always get a chuckle when they hear someone calling me a leftist; only the so-called &#8220;conservatives&#8221; of the current day who arguably don&#8217;t understand the definition of the word seem to think I&#8217;m not conservative in most matters. I do find it interesting, however, that when one examines Jesus&#8217; teachings, it is obvious to anyone with at least a high school education that He was more liberal than any human wearing that label today.</p>
<p>That said, along with several of the ones commenting previously, I&#8217;d urge you to take a fresh look at the painting without trying to consider the depiction as an attempt to re-create the event where He was washing the feet of His disciples. Rather consider that the same action was depicted with a slightly different set of circumstances to slightly change the emphasis of the lesson presented.</p>
<p>In the original event with His disciples, Jesus was attempting to show them the foolishness of the argument they were having regarding which one(s) of them would have a more prestigious position in the afterlife. To do so, He used the obvious and universal fact that performing a service for someone does <i>not</i> say anything about the character of the person for whom the service is done, but it speaks volumes about the character of the person doing the service. And it speaks even louder when the person doing the service is of &#8220;greater&#8221; stature than the one receiving the service. Anyone is willing to serve a friend or someone they thought to be greater than themselves. It takes a truly excellent character to freely provide a service to someone who is of lesser stature than oneself, and by doing so, one is exalted.</p>
<p>That is the point I believe you are missing here in light of the last line in your blog post. You said that Jesus would kneel before no one, which says to me that you believe that doing so somehow means that the one doing the kneeling is inferior. I, on the other hand, believe that point being made is that a persona such as Jesus Himself, washing the feet of even those I believe (possibly incorrectly) are His enemies, glorifies Him beyond words. You say, rightfully so, that Jesus is the King of Kings. Is it not a good king who serves all of his people, even those that disagree with him? All humans qualify as Jesus&#8217; people, and His very appearance on our sin-ridden planet reveals His character.</p>
<p>In our day and age, politicians are as poorly regarded as the tax-collectors and the others with whom Jesus spent his time while on our planet. The painting uses this, not in an attempt to re-create the message shown in the original foot-washing episode, but in an attempt to illustrate <i>Jesus&#8217; entire ministry on Earth</i>. Even if this is not true, when you say that Jesus didn&#8217;t wash the feet of His enemies, I assume you&#8217;re forgetting the presence of Judas?</p>
<p>Finally, I would ask that you notice that when I make most of my arguments in religious matters, I use Jesus&#8217; words and teachings as recorded in the Bible as my basis. If you believe that my interpretation of one or more of His teachings is in error, it would be helpful if you presented your counter argument  by likewise referencing His teachings. Like many, I find the Bible to be valuable, but unlike many, I firmly believe that Jesus&#8217; actual teachings are at a higher priority and importance than Paul&#8217;s or anyone else&#8217;s. If we truly believe that Jesus was indeed God or some part thereof, we must admit that His actual words carry a good bit more weight than any human regardless of how inspired that human was.</p>
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		<title>By: Sillie Lizzie</title>
		<link>http://lrs.moonstar.com/blog/2007/12/12/how-many-christians-understand-jesus-teachings/comment-page-2/#comment-13618</link>
		<dc:creator>Sillie Lizzie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 15:29:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lrs.moonstar.com/blog/2007/12/12/how-many-christians-understand-jesus-teachings/#comment-13618</guid>
		<description>You and the commentors are so WRONG that its absolutely stunning. 

First of all, Jesus washed HIS DISCIPLES' feet, not the feet of those who killed Him then, nor those who desire to kill His people today. Feet washing is a symbol of Christian fellowship in humility toward one another, the OPPOSITE of the essence of your comments and your attitude toward other believers.  

Second, Jesus DIED for sinners.  We know the for whom He died in the atonement because they REPENT of their sins. That's why we have the distinction between the two thieves who died with Jesus. I have yet to see ANY of the people in that picture repent of their sins. Even Bush only confesses that Jesus cured him of alchoholism, like some new self-help therapy.

Third, the appropriate PICTURE for the critical truths I just articulated above is the CROSS -- not that blasphemous picture. The appropriate symbol for that picture is them burning in HELL if they don't repent before they die.

As long as such unbelievable IGNORANCE of true Christianity is perpetrated by people like you and those whom you deceive, both the Christian church AND our nation will continue to be disgraced and trampled by Satan. 

Shame on you. All of you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You and the commentors are so WRONG that its absolutely stunning. </p>
<p>First of all, Jesus washed HIS DISCIPLES&#8217; feet, not the feet of those who killed Him then, nor those who desire to kill His people today. Feet washing is a symbol of Christian fellowship in humility toward one another, the OPPOSITE of the essence of your comments and your attitude toward other believers.  </p>
<p>Second, Jesus DIED for sinners.  We know the for whom He died in the atonement because they REPENT of their sins. That&#8217;s why we have the distinction between the two thieves who died with Jesus. I have yet to see ANY of the people in that picture repent of their sins. Even Bush only confesses that Jesus cured him of alchoholism, like some new self-help therapy.</p>
<p>Third, the appropriate PICTURE for the critical truths I just articulated above is the CROSS &#8212; not that blasphemous picture. The appropriate symbol for that picture is them burning in HELL if they don&#8217;t repent before they die.</p>
<p>As long as such unbelievable IGNORANCE of true Christianity is perpetrated by people like you and those whom you deceive, both the Christian church AND our nation will continue to be disgraced and trampled by Satan. </p>
<p>Shame on you. All of you.</p>
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		<title>By: Using The Lords Name in Vain &#171;</title>
		<link>http://lrs.moonstar.com/blog/2007/12/12/how-many-christians-understand-jesus-teachings/comment-page-2/#comment-12054</link>
		<dc:creator>Using The Lords Name in Vain &#171;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Mar 2009 07:33:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lrs.moonstar.com/blog/2007/12/12/how-many-christians-understand-jesus-teachings/#comment-12054</guid>
		<description>[...] of others with hateful speech. References &amp; Inspirations The Blog of Lon – 12/12/07 “How many Christians Understand Jesus’ Teachings” Beyond Today – 02/25/08 “Hate [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of others with hateful speech. References &amp; Inspirations The Blog of Lon – 12/12/07 “How many Christians Understand Jesus’ Teachings” Beyond Today – 02/25/08 “Hate [...]</p>
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		<title>By: OhHolyKnight</title>
		<link>http://lrs.moonstar.com/blog/2007/12/12/how-many-christians-understand-jesus-teachings/comment-page-2/#comment-2311</link>
		<dc:creator>OhHolyKnight</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jul 2008 23:56:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lrs.moonstar.com/blog/2007/12/12/how-many-christians-understand-jesus-teachings/#comment-2311</guid>
		<description>I understand the teachings of Jesus. I believe he said it best when he said, "Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it." (Matthew 10:34-39)

"I did not come to bring peace"! Isn't that the truth! How many conflicts have arisen because of that lunatic! Oh, did I misconstrue the passage? Alright, how about you guys tell me the snippets of the bible I should read and the other parts I should ignore.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I understand the teachings of Jesus. I believe he said it best when he said, &#8220;Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it.&#8221; (Matthew 10:34-39)</p>
<p>&#8220;I did not come to bring peace&#8221;! Isn&#8217;t that the truth! How many conflicts have arisen because of that lunatic! Oh, did I misconstrue the passage? Alright, how about you guys tell me the snippets of the bible I should read and the other parts I should ignore.</p>
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		<title>By: What&#8217;s New With Mick :: Christian Challenge</title>
		<link>http://lrs.moonstar.com/blog/2007/12/12/how-many-christians-understand-jesus-teachings/comment-page-2/#comment-1045</link>
		<dc:creator>What&#8217;s New With Mick :: Christian Challenge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Apr 2008 05:54:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lrs.moonstar.com/blog/2007/12/12/how-many-christians-understand-jesus-teachings/#comment-1045</guid>
		<description>[...] pointed out this excellent response to a local controversy over a poster depicting Jesus washing the feet of world leaders including [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] pointed out this excellent response to a local controversy over a poster depicting Jesus washing the feet of world leaders including [...]</p>
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		<title>By: rrrryan</title>
		<link>http://lrs.moonstar.com/blog/2007/12/12/how-many-christians-understand-jesus-teachings/comment-page-2/#comment-874</link>
		<dc:creator>rrrryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 16:53:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lrs.moonstar.com/blog/2007/12/12/how-many-christians-understand-jesus-teachings/#comment-874</guid>
		<description>The presence of Obama, I mean Osama ... woops. (no offense to Obama) ... Adds a dimension for me. The simple fact that a righteous leader (as Osama claims to be) seeks to serve. Jesus contrasts the behavior of every person in that row, including that of a leader who brainwashes people with promises of eternal sex with 70 something virgins (do they stay virgins or what? I mean that would be strange, wouldn't it?) to mutilate themselves and civilians for the leader's own whims. I am not offended to see my Lord's humble example flying in the face of human values. Especially in a message that translates to a global culture. For some folks on this planet that is bigger than America Osama is the good guy and Bush the bad guy.

BTW... we could have done without the petty comments about oral sex. At least my mention of virgin promises has some basis in fact and the issue at hand.

One final note though, however not offended I am by the image, I do disagree with the context. I am reasonably convinced that Jesus' command to "wash each other's feet" applied to the fellowship of believers. We are to pray for our enemies, and we are to love them as well (ouch), however until the "body is cleaned" cleaning the feet would be entirely futile. In short, I am convinced I should pray and try to love my enemy, but that doesn't mean I help them accomplish their plans. I'll focus my help on things like orphans, widows, sick, and hungry... I'll leave the killing and stuff to the folks in that row.

Final, final note... anyone else having trouble shaking the relief over Hussein being gone? I'm sure if I knew him I would find a way to miss him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The presence of Obama, I mean Osama &#8230; woops. (no offense to Obama) &#8230; Adds a dimension for me. The simple fact that a righteous leader (as Osama claims to be) seeks to serve. Jesus contrasts the behavior of every person in that row, including that of a leader who brainwashes people with promises of eternal sex with 70 something virgins (do they stay virgins or what? I mean that would be strange, wouldn&#8217;t it?) to mutilate themselves and civilians for the leader&#8217;s own whims. I am not offended to see my Lord&#8217;s humble example flying in the face of human values. Especially in a message that translates to a global culture. For some folks on this planet that is bigger than America Osama is the good guy and Bush the bad guy.</p>
<p>BTW&#8230; we could have done without the petty comments about oral sex. At least my mention of virgin promises has some basis in fact and the issue at hand.</p>
<p>One final note though, however not offended I am by the image, I do disagree with the context. I am reasonably convinced that Jesus&#8217; command to &#8220;wash each other&#8217;s feet&#8221; applied to the fellowship of believers. We are to pray for our enemies, and we are to love them as well (ouch), however until the &#8220;body is cleaned&#8221; cleaning the feet would be entirely futile. In short, I am convinced I should pray and try to love my enemy, but that doesn&#8217;t mean I help them accomplish their plans. I&#8217;ll focus my help on things like orphans, widows, sick, and hungry&#8230; I&#8217;ll leave the killing and stuff to the folks in that row.</p>
<p>Final, final note&#8230; anyone else having trouble shaking the relief over Hussein being gone? I&#8217;m sure if I knew him I would find a way to miss him.</p>
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		<title>By: dave</title>
		<link>http://lrs.moonstar.com/blog/2007/12/12/how-many-christians-understand-jesus-teachings/comment-page-2/#comment-407</link>
		<dc:creator>dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 08:42:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lrs.moonstar.com/blog/2007/12/12/how-many-christians-understand-jesus-teachings/#comment-407</guid>
		<description>jesus would not wash their feet today, the foot washing was an example, george bush should wash bin ladens feet, america should wash the worlds feet, then peace may come</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>jesus would not wash their feet today, the foot washing was an example, george bush should wash bin ladens feet, america should wash the worlds feet, then peace may come</p>
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		<title>By: Mat</title>
		<link>http://lrs.moonstar.com/blog/2007/12/12/how-many-christians-understand-jesus-teachings/comment-page-2/#comment-322</link>
		<dc:creator>Mat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Dec 2007 16:17:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lrs.moonstar.com/blog/2007/12/12/how-many-christians-understand-jesus-teachings/#comment-322</guid>
		<description>As High Priest Jesus came to wash the feet of everyone. Jesus doesn’t decide whose feet get washed or not… the people in the chairs do and from what I know many of them have told him to piss off.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As High Priest Jesus came to wash the feet of everyone. Jesus doesn’t decide whose feet get washed or not… the people in the chairs do and from what I know many of them have told him to piss off.</p>
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		<title>By: James Forsyth</title>
		<link>http://lrs.moonstar.com/blog/2007/12/12/how-many-christians-understand-jesus-teachings/comment-page-2/#comment-320</link>
		<dc:creator>James Forsyth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Dec 2007 12:27:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lrs.moonstar.com/blog/2007/12/12/how-many-christians-understand-jesus-teachings/#comment-320</guid>
		<description>I agree with several others who have basically said that this picture bears no relation to what actually happened.  First, Christ washed his disciples' feet, not anybody else's, and clearly not anyone who disagreed with him on religious issues, like Bin Laden.  Second, if those whose feet he was washing did not actually follow him (i.e. both literally - 3 years of ministry and figuratively - as Saviour &amp; Lord), then the picture is a silly provocation.

However, that said, I think I'd like to see both the painter of this picture, and the writer of this blog, make a similarly offensive gesture towards Islam.  Oh, we can't vilify Muslims, now, can we?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with several others who have basically said that this picture bears no relation to what actually happened.  First, Christ washed his disciples&#8217; feet, not anybody else&#8217;s, and clearly not anyone who disagreed with him on religious issues, like Bin Laden.  Second, if those whose feet he was washing did not actually follow him (i.e. both literally - 3 years of ministry and figuratively - as Saviour &amp; Lord), then the picture is a silly provocation.</p>
<p>However, that said, I think I&#8217;d like to see both the painter of this picture, and the writer of this blog, make a similarly offensive gesture towards Islam.  Oh, we can&#8217;t vilify Muslims, now, can we?</p>
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