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	<title>Comments on: Arguments against God, pt 2</title>
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	<link>http://lrs.moonstar.com/blog/2007/10/28/arguments-against-god-pt-2/</link>
	<description>Lon's diatribes and rants on politics, religion, and geek stuff.</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 03:26:07 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: DG</title>
		<link>http://lrs.moonstar.com/blog/2007/10/28/arguments-against-god-pt-2/comment-page-1/#comment-212</link>
		<dc:creator>DG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Dec 2007 10:00:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>"Occam's Razor" actually says "entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity".  It applies very well to your own statement that "God’s presence isn’t necessary to explain what we can see in the universe."  If a deity is not necessary, don't add it to the proposed explanation.

Occam's Razor (and logic as a whole) can not disprove the existence of a deity, but it suggests we apply the null hypothesis to it.  It is also a correct, non-hysterical application of Russell's Teapot: the burden of proof rests on he who suggests the hypothesis.

I agree with many of the opinions you've expressed on the practical aspects of religion: where it's useful, where it's not, and its role in society.  

I still doubt I can accept that any god exists, even the pared down version you've espoused.  But I'd really like to hear a more detailed description of the deity you believe in, hopefully in a blog post.

From your posts, it sounds like you believe in a deity that:
1. Has a will
2. Created the universe
3. Exists, or at one time existed, outside the universe (a corollary of having created it)

As you say, that the universe exists is obvious.  But there is nothing obvious that there exists or ever existed any time or place outside the universe.  For all we know, time and space itself is part of the universe.

I also think that the idea of will itself is an abstract notion humans have attributed to some, but not all, moving creatures.  (I guess I should just say "some animals, and humans if you don't believe humans are a type of animal".)  It looks like a post-hoc definition humans have invented for the part of the decision-making processes we don't yet understand.  As in the case of the universe, science has done a good job of pushing out the frontier of understanding decision-making processes.  Admittedly, I'm not convinced of my off-the-cuff description of will, but in my defense, the notion of will has little consequence to me unless it explains the origin of the universe.  So I would just like to hear what you think "God's will" is, and how or whether it is similar to will of humans.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Occam&#8217;s Razor&#8221; actually says &#8220;entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity&#8221;.  It applies very well to your own statement that &#8220;God’s presence isn’t necessary to explain what we can see in the universe.&#8221;  If a deity is not necessary, don&#8217;t add it to the proposed explanation.</p>
<p>Occam&#8217;s Razor (and logic as a whole) can not disprove the existence of a deity, but it suggests we apply the null hypothesis to it.  It is also a correct, non-hysterical application of Russell&#8217;s Teapot: the burden of proof rests on he who suggests the hypothesis.</p>
<p>I agree with many of the opinions you&#8217;ve expressed on the practical aspects of religion: where it&#8217;s useful, where it&#8217;s not, and its role in society.  </p>
<p>I still doubt I can accept that any god exists, even the pared down version you&#8217;ve espoused.  But I&#8217;d really like to hear a more detailed description of the deity you believe in, hopefully in a blog post.</p>
<p>From your posts, it sounds like you believe in a deity that:<br />
1. Has a will<br />
2. Created the universe<br />
3. Exists, or at one time existed, outside the universe (a corollary of having created it)</p>
<p>As you say, that the universe exists is obvious.  But there is nothing obvious that there exists or ever existed any time or place outside the universe.  For all we know, time and space itself is part of the universe.</p>
<p>I also think that the idea of will itself is an abstract notion humans have attributed to some, but not all, moving creatures.  (I guess I should just say &#8220;some animals, and humans if you don&#8217;t believe humans are a type of animal&#8221;.)  It looks like a post-hoc definition humans have invented for the part of the decision-making processes we don&#8217;t yet understand.  As in the case of the universe, science has done a good job of pushing out the frontier of understanding decision-making processes.  Admittedly, I&#8217;m not convinced of my off-the-cuff description of will, but in my defense, the notion of will has little consequence to me unless it explains the origin of the universe.  So I would just like to hear what you think &#8220;God&#8217;s will&#8221; is, and how or whether it is similar to will of humans.</p>
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